UNIVERSALIST F.A.Q.
QUESTION TO THE UNIVERSALIST: Is time a creation of God? (Genesis 1:5)
UNIVERSALIST ANSWER: Yes, time is a creation of God. And certainly he is greater than anything in his creation. Time is also a perception of created beings. Most astrophysicists agree that time is not a constant and as A. Einstein observed it is affected by gravity and position in space i.e. it is relative to those observing it.Therefore, I would agree that God is outside/inside of time as one way of looking at it. However, I think a more correct view would be that God is timeless and infinite.
QUESTION TO THE UNIVERSALIST: Is God greater than anything that He creates? In other words, is God outside of time and also inside of time?(Psalm 90:2)
UNIVERSALIST ANSWER: Time is also a perception of created beings. Most astrophysicists agree that time is not a constant and as A. Einstein observed it is affected by gravity and position in space i.e. it is relative to those observing it.Therefore, I would agree that God is outside/inside of time as one way of looking at it. However, I think a more correct view would be that God is timeless and infinite.
QUESTION TO THE UNIVERSALIST: Is the Hebrew word for everlasting(Psalm 90:2 for example) "owlam" equivalent to "aion" in the Greek? Does scripture reveal this to us?
Hebrew OLAM is the equivalent of Greek AION. However, the whole question under discussion is how these words can be concordatly translated in to english? I do not agree that they denote eternity. The translation could be " from eon unto eon you are Lord.
QUESTION TO THE UNIVERSALIST: But as you just agreed to that "owlam" for everlasting is not eternal, correct? But you also agreed that God is OUTSIDE of time, correct? This is a contradiction in itself for 'owlam' in Psalm 90:2 denotes before creation and after creation. You agree that time is a creation of God, therefore God was before time ever started and is defined by the word 'owlam.'
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: Do you think that God created "evil" in Isaiah 45:7?
No. In the six days of creation, evil was not part of creation. The tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil was in the Garden however. Knowledge of evil is not sin. Doing evil is sin. Romans 3 discusses how thru the law, the knowledge of sin is revealed, however later on in Romans, it shows that KNOWLEDGE is not sin, because the law is not sin as Paul specifically wrote. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]." First Robert, the opposite of light is darkness right? The opposite of peace? Trials, tribulations, testing, or in other words, chaos. The Hebrew word for evil has many other meanings. As we saw in Genesis 1 and 2, evil was not created. Sin was not created which also further demonstrates that evil was not present. Although God KNOWS about good AND evil, God cannot sin, for it is impossible for God to sin. Therefore, Isaiah 45:7 is not a contradiction although I can see where some may be stumbled by that verse. Another example would be that God commands us to not be angry without a cause or to kill or murder someone, but God can because He is the only one that can see, know, and righteously judge everyone because He sees it all. We cannot. There is righteous anger as Jesus overthrew the moneychangers in the temple as well as a few other times with the Pharisees for their unbelief.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: I believe that God has either directly or indirectly had a hand in all aspects of his creation. And he did create "evil" Isaiah 45:7/ Jer 42:6. Since by definition God can not commit sin. I think it is more correct to say "moral evil" is sin. This "problem of evil" is something we as Christians have to come to grips with apologetically because many non-believers reject God because of the presence of evil and suffering in the world.
God is not the author of sin. All of God's creation was pronounced not just good, but very good(Genesis 1:31). It was man that sinned. Before Adam and Eve sinned, they only knew to do good. With the eating of the fruit, God Himself said that they knew as one of us(God). Moral evil I do not think includes sin commited in the heart. The bible says that sins in the heart are the same as commiting them. Having knowledge of sin is not sin. Committing sin is sin.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION:
I have read A.E Knoch's definitive work "ALL IN ALL" and a number of his other writings. They are heretical no doubt. However, No where have I read evidence in any of these works that states "Thinking that God is bound by time" Where did you read this? Certainly we both agree that God can not be bound by anything (save perhaps the truth). I don't believe that any mortal man has wholly cornered the market on truth, as long as we are alive in these imperfect and sinful bodies we will, as the apostle Paul said in I COR 13, look through that mirror darkly until we are face to face with our lord. We can only study, pray, and use the reason that God gave us to best grasp the truth which he has given us in scripture.
I have studied languages since I was a school boy. Doctrinal disagreements aside, Knoch's translational method is the most reasonable and concordant. as for the Greek root word in question " AION" knoch chose to use the English cognate "eon" in the singular and "eons" in the plural. Many translations use the word "age" most often in translating this word into English. KJV translates "AION": age, eternal, course, ever, forever, never, and world. The KJV renders "AION" as "World" no less than 32 times. Well the Greeks had a word "KOSMOS" which the KJV renders "world" in almost all occasions. How can an English reader not be misled with this spurious translation? Whether or not "eon" is the best English word I am not prepared to say. But I can say a definite problem arises for "eternal" and "forever"; These words in English make no sense in the plural. How can we have 3 or more forevers? Or an Eternity of Eternities?
Spurious? Let us examine closely the CLNT translation of aion in the new testament(NT). Let us start out with a couple here that are directly quoted from the CLNT:
From the CLNT:
Luke 20:34 And, answering, Jesus said to them, "The sons of this eon are marrying and are taking out in
marriage.
35 Yet those deemed worthy to happen upon that eon and the resurrection from among the
dead are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage.
36 For neither can they still be dying, for they are equal to messengers, and are the sons of
God, being sons of the resurrection.
This verse 36 also shows that the resurrected body is endless. As far as the NKJV is concerned, I do not support it at all. The NKJV has blunders in it, I never said it did not.
Hmm, I have a problem here. What is wrong here? Adam and Eve were married, were they not? Which eon was that? The first eon? How can this be, when according to A.E. Knoch in his book entitled "ALL IN ALL" on page 24, illustrates that there were three eons prior to the death of Jesus Christ! Strange. So are people getting married today as we know it? How about in the coming decade? And the next century for that matter? People were certainly getting married after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ until the time of today, have they not? Then how is "aion" translated THIS eon?
Furthermore, we know from the very next verse in verse 35 that marriage is clearly NOT eternal here, since believers will be married to Jesus Christ. In a sense, marriage is eternal, since whatever God has joined, no man shall separate, as believers are the bride of Christ, which is The Body of Christ---the church.
Here is the next problem that we have here with the CLNT:
John 6:51 I am the living Bread which descends out of heaven. If anyone should be eating of this Bread, he shall be living for the eon. Now the Bread also, which I shall be giving for the sake of the life of the world, is My flesh."
Do I understand this correctly here? THE eon. Is this the same eon where marriage is also existing also? But wait a minute here, Jesus is clearly talking about the living bread that is clearly eternal and endless, is this not true? 1Timothy 6:16 clearly shows that ONLY The Son is immortal. Immortal is clearly eternal.
Furthermore in John 17:
21 that they may all be one, according as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us, that the world should be believing that Thou dost commission Me.
22 "And I have given them the glory which Thou has given Me, that they may be one, according as We are One,
....the clnt clearly teaches that the Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father who is endless and eternal. Verse 21 also clearly shows that the resurrected believer in Christ is also ONE with the Father AND the Son. This clearly contradicts John 6:51, for the Father is clearly BEYOND "...living for the eon."
How does one observe "the eons"? What does the eon look like? Taste like? Smell like? Feel like? I did not realize that time could be seen. However, the world can be seen as the KJV states.
Hebrews 11:3 By faith we are apprehending the eons to adjust to a declaration of God, so that what is being observed has not come out of what is appearing.
And how about this one:
Hebrews 7: 24 yet that One, because of His remaining for the eon, has an inviolate priesthood.
Jesus is remaining for the eon? Remember this is the same exact terminology used to describe how mankind is marrying. Is Jesus dead right now? If not, where is He right this very minute? Does Jesus Christ still remain after the first earth is destroyed by fire as talked about in 2 Peter? Does Jesus also remain way way after the new heavens and the new earth wherein only dwells righteousness in 2 Peter as well? Hmmmmm.
What Knoch will fail to admit because he cannot affort to admit this, is that there is a "aion" that is infinite as described in Revelation 22. I counted at least three "eons" before what Jesus spoke of regarding marriage. Knoch used the singular of eon. That is pure error. What scripture is telling us is that there is one WORLD which is of course the one that we are living in now. Then the SECOND world is the one without sin and is without marriage. Knoch cannot reconcile his blunder. You used the correct translation by using "eons" HOWEVER the greek scripture in that verse is in the singular. Hence the error.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: I believe you have misunderstood "ALL IN ALL". If you will look at the first three pages of Appendix A -You will find that our Lord's advent occurred during the third eon which is the same eon we are presently observing.[Incidentally eons are "indefinite periods of time" and are perceived or observed the same way we observe any abstract idea- through our God given minds.]
Not according to what Knoch and the others teach. The chart is their teaching. What Knoch will fail to admit because he cannot affort to admit this, is that there is a "aion" that is infinite as described in Revelation 22. I counted at least three "eons" before what Jesus spoke of regarding marriage. Knoch used the singular of eon. That is pure error. What scripture is telling us is that there is one WORLD which is of course the one that we are living in now. Then the SECOND world is the one without sin and is without marriage. Knoch cannot reconcile his blunder. You used the correct translation by using "eons" HOWEVER the greek scripture in that verse is in the singular. Hence the error.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: O.K., then if I understand you correctly -you propose that Aion in the singular always signifies "eternal" and in the plural always signifies "World" ? If true, where did you encounter this teaching? how do you translate "cosmos"?
I was only showing the inconsistencies of Knoch's words. You see, "world" is the only possible correct translation for that verse. Verse determines translation. Cosmos is plural for the heaven(sky, atmosphere) and the earth as God created the heavens and the earth.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: The answer to your question about Luke 20:34. Adam and Eve were husband and wife during the first eon.
OK. The first eon. Is this is same eon as Jesus spoke of? Knoch disagrees. Eon is in the singular.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: As I understand this verse, the Sadducees were trying to set up Christ with a question on widows remarrying. So he is speaking of the present day (eon#3) and the subsequent eon.
Correct they were trying to, no doubt, but the law of marriage has never ever changed from the moment the earth was created. therefore, "world" is the only possible translation because of the fact that the next new world and heavens will be without sin and without marriage. I doubt Jesus was only referring to only the present and future for a couple of reasons. Jesus always referred back to the law in reference to marriage especially when He was asked about divorce, and the 7 brothers marrying one woman, etc. God's law never ever changes.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: By using a specific eon to illustrate the point, this does not preclude the law of marriage from existing in previous eons.
OK, a shift now in your thinking from your above statement about Greek words being the same throughout scripture and how God should have used this word and how God should have used that word. Then why didn't God say so in the Greek? He did create marriage in the first place in Genesis 1.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: They caused "The Disruption" by eating the forbidden fruit which brought about the second eon which ended with the flood. Bringing about the third eon. So there are only 2 eons prior to the death of Christ.
OK, but the translation problem still exists. Two is plural right? Eons, not eon. Hence the error.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: Since we are still in the third eon obviously people are getting married. But after "The Day of Indignation" The fourth eon begins. Perhaps this 4th eon will not have the institution of marriage.
The 4th eon is eternal for there is no more death(Rev 21:4) and the Lamb and the Father share the same throne(Rev 21 & 22) and this is the consummation of the kingdom(1Corinthians15:28) for Jesus said that this is all finished(Rev 21:4-8). The immortal resurrected bodies have long been given to those in Christ as well.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: No, refering to "the Chart" the fourth eon ends with the Judgement. There is still another eon prior to the final consummation.
According to "the Chart" you are correct. According to the bible.....well. The resurrection of the believers in Christ is 1,000 years before the resurrection of the damned. Isn't this before the final consummation? Just a question to further examine your statement. By the way, Knoch agrees that Rev 21:4 is "...no more death and nothing is doomed." Examine here, http://www.1john57.com/error6.jpg Also on that same page, near the top, Knoch also teaches that eon and eonian are temporary, not eternal. That flies in the face of aion, aionios and owlam(Hebrew) of the OT in regards to Psalm 90:2
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: "THIS EON" is translated from the Greek:AIONOS TOUTO (TOUTO signifies "the same") Knoch chose the word "this" in English. The KJV translates it "This" also. But why does KJV have "World" for "AIONOS"? As I stated earlier the Greeks had a perfectly good word for God's creation-KOSMOS.Even the NKJV translates it as "Age"
As I have already stated, there are only two worlds: the present world with sin, and the one without sin which is the eternal world without sin. I count two worlds.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: The eon in John 6:51 is referring to the next eon #4 after the resurrection of the dead. Eonian life is promised to the believers.
So a believer is not blessed with the immortal incorruptible body(1Cor15:42-54) as of yet in the resurrection?!?!?!? Not hardly. Jesus Christ rose in the only immortal incorruptible body for He is the only one that possesses this body thus far(Colossians 1). He is the firstborn from the dead. Notice Jesus said flesh and BONE, not blood, after He rose from the dead. This is the same exact body that was lifted into heaven. Corrupted flesh and blood cannot do this. Therefore, this is not an "eonian" body.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: Knoch explains: Eternal may be applied only to that which continues without intermission endlessly.
OK, this answers your above point then---Jesus is not going to die again is He?(Revelation1:17-18). Once means once. Therefore Jesus is eternal and the First and the Last who was DEAD but now is alive forevermore(Revelation 1:17-18). Amen.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: Not a single one of the Lord's personal followers is alive today.
To be absent in the body is to be present with the LORD. The bible guarantees that His believers will never see death. God would be a liar if otherwise.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: None of them received "everlasting" life. They are dead.
Are you saying that Jesus died for no purpose? I have everlasting life right this very second. Right here right now. This corrupted sinful body will certainly perish. My spirit and soul are eternal right this very second and will be present with the LORD upon death in the physical flesh.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: Again what translation? I have often heard II COR 5: 6-10 twisted in the same manner even by Godly men who have attended seminary i.e. it is a common mistake. " Rather to be absent from the body AND to be present with the Lord." is what I am reading from KJV.This conveys quite a different thought. To illustrate: "I would rather be absent from my home in El Paso and present with you in China" So there are myriad cases of me being absent from El Paso- i.e New York, Chicago, LA etc.. and not being in China.one does not confer the other. None of them received "everlasting" life. They are dead.
How about Moses and Elijah, Robert? Are they dead right this very second?
All verses quoted from the CLNT:
Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus is taking aside Peter and James and John, his brother, and is bringing them up into a high mountain, privately,
2 and was transformed in front of them. And His face shines as the sun, yet His garments became white as the light.
3 And lo! Moses and Elijah were seen by them, conferring with Him.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord.
2Cor 5:6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, ***being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord.***
2Cor 5:1 For we are aware that, if our terrestrial tabernacle house should be demolished, we have a building of God, a house not made by hands, eonian, in the heavens.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."
The thief later died didn't he? He was not in his flesh and blood body. For we see that...
1Cor 15:50 Now this I am averring, brethren, that flesh and blood is not able to enjoy an allotment in the kingdom of God, neither is corruption enjoying the allotment of incorruption.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: If everlasting life permits interruption by death now, why not in the resurrection also?
answered above. Faulty assumption as scripture never once taught this. Then why is one resurrected then? This grossly contradicts even A.E. Knoch's teaching that the eternal endless body IS described in 1Corinthians 15:42-54. To be resurrected unto MORE corruption? Jesus did not, neither will believers.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: All of these expressions denote definite periods of time, measured by eons, or ages.
No it doesn't. Almost all does not equal all. Majority yes, but not all. Righteousness never ends. Sin does. There are only two worlds. One with sin. One without sin. The second world is eternal and is not bounded by time, for there is no more night.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: Eonian life begins in the next eon.
Endless life begins after the first earth is destroyed.
2Peter 3:5 For they want to be oblivious of this, that there were heavens of old, and an earth cohering out of water and through water, by the word of God;
6 through which the then world, being deluged by water, perished.
7 Yet the heavens now, and the earth, by the same word, are stored with fire, being kept for the day of the judging and destruction of irreverent men.
10 Now the day of the Lord will be arriving as a thief, in which the heavens shall be passing by with a booming noise, yet the elements shall be dissolved by combustion, and the earth and the works in it shall be found.
11 At these all, then, dissolving, to what manner of men must you belong in holy behavior and devoutness,
12 hoping for and hurrying the presence of God's day, because of which the heavens, being on fire, will be dissolved, and the elements decompose by combustion!
13 Yet we, according to His promises, are hoping for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness is dwelling.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: Now it is evident that the Lord had not thought of life lasting forever. In that case how could he be "raising" him in the last day?(John 6:39/ 11:24) The life here spoken of was to be bestowed in the resurrection. there could be no resurrection apart from a previous death. In short, our Lord spoke in such a way that we are sure that everlasting life, so-called, does not commence until he calls His own from the grave.
*****Who dwells in eternity? The Lord. Who is the Lord? Jesus. Who created everything that was made(John1:3)? Jesus. Who destroyed the power of death? Jesus. Jesus most certainly thought of life last forever. He raises the believer to endlessness by the same why that He rose HIMSELF from the dead(John2:19-21). The last day signifies the end of time. Remember when the first day was? Genesis 1:5. Time as we know it, ends. There is no night in the endless world coming. Only day. Time as we know it will cease. All believers will be raised unto the resurrection of eternal life at the same moment(John5:29) that is way before the resurrecton unto damnation.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: As this life has a definite beginning, it also has an end.
Our fleshly bodies have a definite end but the believers who die in Christ will be raised immortal and incorruptible.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: But this end does not come until death is abolished (I COR 15:26), it changes from "eonian" life into actual never-ending life.
Death was already conquered at the cross. Otherwise Jesus could not have rose from the dead. And our faith would be in vain. Jesus' body does not change from His resurrection and neither will the believers body after the resurrection. Scripture never teaches this. Neither does scripture teach two distinct separately different resurrected bodies of the believer.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: This will be the portion of all. It is not the special privilege of the believer.
Show me one verse in the bible that teaches what you just said. One.
UNIVERSALIST QUESTION: The peculiar kind of life promised to faith begins at Christ's presence, when those who are his will be vivified, and continues through the last two eons, embracing the millennium and the succeeding eon in the new earth, until the eons end, and the last enemy,death, is destroyed. Hence the life received in resurrection is actually "everlasting," though never called so in the Word of God.
The succeeding "eon" in the new earth is eternal, so I am assuming you meant endless. Remember, sin is death right? There is no more sin in the second earth(2Peter3). The "eons" you speak of never end. The bible does not teach that the new earth ceases. Everlasting NEVER called so in the Word of God? W H A T? What does 1 Corinthians 15:42-54 teach? Immortal, incorruptible bodies is e n d l e s s. Incorruption is without death. Death is sin. How can death dwell where there is no sin? That is a contradiction of the Word of God.